Its the ultimate forum showdown! BlackHatWorld vs TrafficPlanet vs WarriorForum!
Since I launched the site I have engaged my audience directly by posting on these 3 forums.
They have sent me a bunch of traffic this year so I wanted to see which one was best!
The results of the previous JohnChow.com vs SearchEngineJournal.com battle were pretty interesting.
But which is the best internet marketing & blackhat forum for traffic & conversions?
What Will I Learn?
To find out which is the best internet marketing forum I’m going to run them through a series of tests to determine which one offers the most bang for buck in terms of traffic and conversion.
All 3 internet marketing forums operate in similar but slightly different niches, so it will be interesting to see how each audience responds to the site.
Let’s start with traffic & engagement.
A simple test, which internet marketing forum offers the best pages/visit, average visit duration and bounce rate?
| Site | Visits | Pages/visit | Visit Duration | % New Visits | Bounce Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| BlackHatworld | 6,875 | 2.69 | 05:26 | 43.52% | 48.32% |
| TrafficPlanet | 3,693 | 2.74 | 06:14 | 29.65% | 45.95% |
| WarriorForum | 3,965 | 2.84 | 06:40 | 48.93% | 46.61% |
This makes for some interesting observations!
First of all it is clear that traffic from WarriorForum is more engaged than anywhere else. They visit more pages and stick around for longer!
While people from BlackHatWorld tend to stick around for over a minute less visiting the least amount of pages.
TrafficPlanet sits in the happy medium but only sends 29.65% new visitors.
This is because it’s a smaller tightly knit community I’m deeply engaged in – nice to know they still want to hear what I have to say though =D
So now we know how engaged the traffic is with the blog, but what about conversion?
Things like email subscriptions, affiliate clicks or resource downloads which require a social share.
Well luckily I have all the data for that ready to rock!
| Site | Goal Conversion | Email Subscription | Affilaite Click | Resource Download |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| BlackHatworld | 15.07% | 0.76% | 8.10% | 1.99% |
| TrafficPlanet | 13.24% | 0.95% | 6.77% | 1.44% |
| WarriorForum | 14.55% | 1.34% | 8.17% | 1.11% |
Percentages are all well & good but let’s take a look at how they actually translates into numbers-
| Site | Goal Conversions | Email Subscriptions | Affilaite Clicks | Resource Downloads |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| BlackHatworld | 746 | 52 | 557 | 137 |
| TrafficPlanet | 338 | 35 | 250 | 53 |
| WarriorForum | 421 | 53 | 324 | 44 |
What is worth noting is they all offer similar overall goal conversion rates of 13.24%-15.07%.
But how this breaks down is interesting.
People coming from BlackHatWorld (which is truly the best blackhat forum) tend to click on a lot of affiliate links & love getting the free resources which require a social share, but don’t tend to opt in.
Whilst people coming from WarriorForum also like to click affiliate links but are more likely to subscribe via email than download the free resources.
There is a key difference in behaviour here.
I believe this is due to people coming from WarriorForum are pre-conditioned to ‘opt in’ to things to get freebies via the WSO forum.
Whereas people coming from BlackHatWorld are used to getting direct links to free things with no opt-in, they have a dedicated forum for it!
So naturally WarriorForum traffic is looking for the opt in and BlackHatWorld traffic is looking for the download link.
TrafficPlanet cruises at a happy medium where it is much more laid back without the incentive to opt in to get things or grab freebies.
The last thing I want to take a look at is how much time was invested to generate the traffic & conversions from each internet marketing forum.
To do that I’m going to look at the total number of posts made on each forum over the same time period-
| Site | # Of Posts | Visits Per Post | Email Subs Per Post | Aff Clicks Per Post | Resource D/Ls Per Post |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| BlackHatworld | 398 | 17 | 0.13 | 1.40 | 0.34 |
| TrafficPlanet | 406 | 9 | 0.09 | 0.62 | 0.34 |
| WarriorForum | 189 | 21 | 0.28 | 1.71 | 0.23 |
When we look at the number of posts made compared to what they actually generated things get pretty awkward.
I’ve made my thoughts clear about how the admins run the WarriorForum, so having them provide the best performing traffic isn’t ideal 😛
It is by far the best ‘value’ traffic though offering more visits, subscribers & affiliate clicks per post than any other – by quite a margin!
BlackHatWorld slides into second delivering slightly less traffic and affiliate clicks but a huge drop off in email subscriptions per post.
I actually have dedicated threads for my tutorials on BlackHatWorld that have had around 50,000 views in total compared to WarriorForum where they delete my threads and I just use a signature.
Even with those chips down – WarriorForum still seems to offer the best bang for buck!
TrafficPlanet is the worst performing all round but on the whole is a much much smaller forum with a tightly knitted community where everyone knows each other.
A local place for local people type thing ^^
There are a few key observations here specifically between how BlackHatWorld & WarriorForum traffic behaves once it hits the site.
First of all there is what I mentioned earlier about BlackHatWorld users used to getting things free via direct links whereas WarriorFourm traffic is preconditioned to the opt in first then get freebie nature of the WSO forum.
The other big observation is that WarriorForum offered more visitors and conversions per post than any other forum.
This is specifically interesting because on WarriorForum I just use signature links whereas on BlackHatWorld I have dedicated posts for my tutorials with ~50k views.
You would expect BlackHatWorld to at least send more visits per post on that basis, but that isn’t the case.
I think there are 2 reasons behind this-
So when a WarriorForum user hits my site they not only want to learn but are probably amazed at the value that is getting delivered to them upfront with no bullshit.
They are preconditioned to low quality products/flakey information due to the sheer volume of spammy WSO’s made by inexperienced pretenders.
Whereas the BlackHatWorld user has broken free of that and is well on their way to making money – a slightly more experienced user.
TrafficPlanet users tend to be more experienced/knowledgeable and it’s a much smaller community.
These guys are switched onto all of the tricks of the trade which and have become conditioned to ignore signature links & signing up for things due to past experiences on other forums.
What do you think? Have I jumped to the wrong conclusions?
Screenshots of the data in analytics are available here & here.
215 Responses
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Black Hat World is really a great forum, though i was member since 8 years , i was perma ban due to my silly mistake. I still like BHW, it rocks
Hahaha what did you do?
How are you able to record that much data. Any particular tool
Here you go https://searchlogistics.com/seo/reporting/google-analytics-event-tracking/
In my opinion. the forum above is quite different from my point of view.If you want instant and have a lot of money, I recommend Blackhatworld.If you want to argue, go to the warriorforum.If you want to learn and get something new. I recommend TrafficPlanet.
Hahaha very funny 🙂
very good informative post….
Thanks Anil!
Great post as always. The Apex forum operated by the WordAI guys is a new SEO forum so it is small and not full of BS (yet) there are lots of noobs hacking away at their own case studies and some bigger players throwing their mustard on the sandwich. Currently I prefer it the bigger forums, but that does not discount what is laid out in this article. Ps. How the F**K do I sign in on this site?
You might have found me over at the apex forum recently http://www.apexforum.com/threads/i-am-matthew-woodward-6-figure-blogger-elite-seo-digital-nomad-laptop-lifestyle-corpora.257/Where are you trying to sign in?
Very detailed information, thanks. I’ve only used warrior forum so far.
Urgh yucky 😛
Great analysis you have here Matthew.I also started with Warriorforum and later discovered BHW.Now i am spending more time at Blackhatworld than any other IM forum.Although there are very few promising WSOs in Warrior forum, but i would advice anyone wanting a guide to make money online particularly newbies to pay more attention to Blackhatworld.Why? The simple reason is BHW have a section of the forum call IM Journey, this is the place where members are documenting how they are making money using specific method(s).In my opinion this is better than buying a WSO which is promising you heaven and earth.
Yes there are some great journey threads in that forum, along with one of my own 🙂
No ! bestblackhatforum.com 🙂
Thanks Matthew, but The Best Black Hat Forum ? I find a lot of reviews and tips very interesting
BlackHatWorld of course 🙂
Well this is good for a new forum like mine. I will start with one of them, and later pay more attention to others. But I am not interested in WF, it is not good for me.
Good luck with your forum 🙂
Thanks man. This I know to be the best way out and am currently doing this with a friend. However due to cash crunch is slow and few domain so far.Would appreciate paying someone ( a good service) and affordable until our PBN grow in number.
Another great post Matt. Thanks so much!!!Do you know you juts save me from committing to a lousy SEO service on Warrior Forum? I cancelled few hours ago.I used to think the bad guys are those selling eBooks and the likes. I thought some of the SEO services are great but this article is making think twice. Though I used a SEO service by a guy called Maulana few months ago and seems to like it. But now… my mind is racing… was it really good?Matt a question for you: Can you share your SEO experience on Warrior, BHW and TP? Which of the service you consider legit?
Just build your own private blog network and cut out the hassle
You won’t find anything like that on a forum, that’s pure scripting genius at play – easy for anyone that is a devil on the command line
“For example setting up a linux box that automatically finds domains, registers them, sets up hosting, generates websites, redeems adwords/bings vochers and sets up the campaigns on complete auto pilot.”Any tutorials you have about this? That sounds neat. WSOs can be total junk. I have bought a few duds, but also a decent amount of winners. It’s true that the IM world is a total minefield. I also sympathize with the poster about his product being ripped and openly distributed on BHW. That really sucks, and I would be pissed if it happened to me.
Lol! You should take a proxy, do your BH magic with your tools, then be back there again. I can’t imagine you not being able to go back in, if you wanted.The truth is, you don’t care nor want to go back there, do you 😉
Hi Matthew. You’re banned there? Then what? You just make a new profile, use a proxy, do some BH magic, and you’re back 🙂 Can the Ban really stop you from getting back in? I doubt so.I used to be White hat believer, feared the Black hat side, until recently, NOW I’m switching totally to BLACK HAT!!Lost so much money trying to make it by the rules of white hat disneyland. While Black Hat people rake it all behind the scenes.NOW I WANT MY BH SHARE! Screw White hat and WSO BS’s 🙂 :)Regards.
BHW is fantastic. But recently, there is one place i appreciate even more: it is called matthewwoodward.co.uk…
Hahaha thanks =D
Just an FYI the comments were off on another thread where you included a pic of Pres. Obama with beer cup and the words he was too busy helping people on welfare….well way to alienate some folks….and here is some facts to go with your subtle racism…kicked any black guys off trains lately?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/28/food-stamp-demographics_n_6771938.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Actually that was in this post https://searchlogistics.com/blogging/how-to-start-blog-and-make-money/ saying ‘work harder, millions on welfare depend on you’.The fact that you make the separation between ‘guys’ and ‘black guys’ along with your own association of ‘welfare’ and ‘black guys’ is one of the great ironys of ‘anti racists’. You understand that regardless of whether you are for or against racism, making that separation makes you racist regardless?I often see Obama referred to as the first black president & how wonderful it is by those with an anti-racist mindset. Yet still call him a ‘black president’.So yes there is a picture of a president telling you to ‘work harder, millions on welfare depend on you’ – that is true in many first world countries including the UK but we just have a prime minister.
Hi Matt The Warrior forum has the highest number of con men for sure and they are like wolves they all work together and prey on the gullible or desperate newbies.It is full of moral less pieces of crap and dream snatchers who would rob your granny if they could.Regular turds from WF are………………Treble guaranteeSee you on the other side No fluffThe mods on BHW would not put up with such BS.
Yeah they certainly protect their income stream
LOL – This is the main problem I had with WarriorForum – I’ve spent many an hour writing detailed and informative, factual posts with examples and the works, and deliberatley didn’t have a signature active – and yet still; my posts get deleted.Which, from the point of view of a forum user – is crazy. Why do they delete my posts which are hugely beneficial to the new and not-so-new users there?To me it would appear that:1) WF is well aware of the scamming problem they have.2) WF profits from some members scamming other members.3) WF protects the scammers in order to protect thier profits, and to hell with the rest of us.4) If anybody speaks out against a scammer they get banned themselves, instead of the scammer?!Interesting and hugely profitable business model. Well, until somebody comes looking for you for serving and protecting the scammers that stole thier life savings. But when that happens – I pray victory for the victims.
Hi,Well that is just plain old theft and extortotion just the modern day equivelanat. I don’t synonymise that with ‘black hat’Black hat to me is just finding shortcuts/automating/hacking ways of doing things (hacking as in that actual definition of hacking, not the commonly misconcenived definition promoted by mass media).For example setting up a linux box that automatically finds domains, registers them, sets up hosting, generates websites, redeems adwords/bings vochers and sets up the campaigns on complete auto pilot.That, is black hat for me.
Hey Matt, I like any blog that keeps it real. Kudos.I was reading the story of the guy who had a 2 or one letter twitter account and got extorted and robbed of it….thats internet marketing? I was building a website for a guy who told me he recently was chatting to a guy on webcam and the guy cut his own throat….when I finally got the details the guy I was working with had stolen the other guys popular Instagram account. This is the world of “Marketing” we live in….its a Bitch. Just imagine the newbies.
BTW…..just saw this…..not sure if its a 2 week time out or perm. :)Alexa SmithBannedWar Room Member Join Date: 2008Posts: 27,681Thanks: 18,729Thanked 25,410 Times in 12,693 Posts
Call a spade a spade….Black hat anything is a freaking den of thieves and you all know it. Ever created a product? They view it as a freebie and it would not matter if you spent 10s of thousands to have it developed.Take someone like Pat Flynn who is one of the most generous guys on the planet..he got hacked and we all know from who…your black hat buddies!They will steal from you from me and their own grand moms.They do not want to see you make a buck…they just want to steal anything you create so THEY CAN MAKE A BUCK.What is funny is that now there is another thief that uses all the blackhat forum names in his domains and steals their traffic.Yes they know their stuff and they use it to steal, scrape and exploit…plain and simple.Real.
Hi,How is your free product reference any different than music/movie piracy? Something that has become a global issue – you can’t use ‘black hats’ as an example there.The behaviour you describe has been rampant throughout human history, the only thing that has changed is the vehicle.
I guess I’m one of those newbs still using Warriorforum… Honestly, I avoided Blackhatworld because of the name and also because I thought that’s where all the lazy folks on a low budget would gather to share black hat techniques and take the easy way out to gain website traffic. Now I’m encouraged to setup an account.
This is the kind of stuff talked about at the conference https://searchlogistics.com/seo/google-ranking-factors/
I got perma banned in wicked fire after posting my bhw screenshot.
I think blackhatworld wins based on SEO techniques & knowledge spread around in the forum but on other hand warrior forum is the place to get new knowledge & services to help you to learn & try quickly then others ……Haven’t heard about traffic planet yet but will check it out soon . Great comparison though …..love it ….
The best one is blackhatworld
Perhaps 😛
“Actually its called ODBD – obssesive dream buying disorder.”I affectionately refer to them as Reality-Challenged ;)Brent
I think both exist, one for SEO focused and one for MMO focused
Very Useful Post, Also i read many comments on your post, Really thanks for these informative comments. i found WF many times full of lies and scams WSOs. My next move to BHW and TP. Thanks Matt 🙂
No worrys 🙂 But you’ll find lies/scams on every forum
Yeah at BHW- I bought several services in there – and came back always to buy more but the admin blocked me out from accessing the sitemap where they have sizable free downloads which I like. Asked the admin why and they didn’t tell me- I didn’t like that and I feel at least telling people why – I never like that kind of authority BS especially I came there to buy mostly. So now they lost me as customers as why would I give money to a forum that run by such a huge egotist?????
Thats often the case at a lot of forums 🙁
Wow, that’s total crap…WF deleted a lot of your posts and threads! I’ve used WF to find a lot of newbies that needed help, I don’t think it’s dead for getting SEO clients. Just my opinion.BTF, or Bring The Fresh is another paid forum that you can get traffic from. That’s hilarious that you’re banned from Wicked Fire, I once clicked on a link in there and it uploaded a “naughty picture” that would bounce around my screen and I couldn’t close it. Talk about juvenile. But a lot of those guys do know their stuff.
Yeah it’s a shame they did that but it does devalue their precious WSO market
Just post and find out 🙂
Sweet …thanks Matt! Would Wickedfire or digitalpoint be even better for that?
In your opinion, what would be the best internet marketing forum to sell a Lifetime license of SENuke XCR on?
Probably BHW
Great post! I like using BlackHatWorld.
Are you going to the conference in November? I’ll be there!
hello anyone have any comment on these two paid forums ppc-coach vs smackthatmoney
I tried PPC coach a while back, not worth the money! Not even close!
Well, that is a silly question!
I got banned from Wickedfire in 2010 for asking “how do you make $20,000 dollars a week.
“in reality there are a lot of screwed up thugs just looking for what they despise and do not want to work for… money”Welcome to the real world 🙂
It’s a bit like trying to buy some cannabis and getting mix herbs. Thats the problem with most WSO’s
You go tit wrong, it is not if you want to spend thousands, but if they want to do so… what’s the problem in that?
Come on!!!! It is what it is…. we both know that all this is just a crock in order to make money. If it be We or you, we do it all in the name of money.Otherwise, you would be on the beach somewhere, not giving a shit about anything…Let’s get real…. we’ll have Russia to deal with soon enough, so hurry and get your thrills….Want to argue about it? Bring it! It is just a matter of time my friend… I suggest we unite..
Well not everything is about money, this blog isn’t about money for example.Although I will be living on a beach somewhere not giving a shit in 5 weeks.Russia is Amercias problem 😛
Members from the BHW keep talking about scams on the WF, but the WF has a lot of reliable sellers who create good tools as well. It’s not just an MMO forum.BHW members bashing the WF is common and your frequent use of expletives make all of you sound juvenile. Most of you buy nothing and are just a bunch of worthless freeloaders. You won’t see much bashing of the BHW from WF members, however, as they are obviously more mature and busy making money to care about you guys at all.Making a comparison of the WF to BHW is like making a comparison of the USA to Nigeria, respectively. lol
I agree there are some gems on the warriorforum at times, BUT 99% of it is complete and utter junk fleecing people.Combine that with the fact that admins are actively removing negative reviews from WSO’s, even when they are substantiated with evidence to protect the WSO sellers and their own income stream – well, yeah.
Didnt know you were banned from Warriorforum. The first time i read few of your posts there i wasnt really impressed, i thought you were kind of a spammer instead. :p But since then i’ve seen tons of valuable posts from you, especially the tiered link building strategy was amazing. Keep up the good work Matt!
Yeah unfortunately it become not worthwhile posting on warrior forum. I used to write detailed threads/replies but they just get deleted, admins prefer you pay for a WSO to share anything of any kind of value to any one.
I am using all these, it is amazing to be there 🙂
See you there 🙂
Thats a shame, I take it you didn’t do a chargeback via paypal/debit card/credit card?
No I did not get a refund.
What did your account get banned for? lol